>> ERIC: YOU'VE ALREADY HEARD PLAN TO RESTRUCTURE THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES AND THE WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST'S EFFECT ON GAS PRICES AT HOME, AND THIS WEEK ALSO SAW DEBATES AT THE LEGISLATURE OVER RENTAL ASSISTANCE, FRAUD, AND GUNS, AND INCREASING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THIS ALL MEANS FOR THE MIDTERMS.

HERE WITH US NOW, A PANEL OF FOLKS TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS SO I DON'T HAVE TO.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST TONIGHT.

FRITZ KNAAK IS A FORMER STATE SENATOR, NOW AN ATTORNEY IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

WITH HIM IS BRIAN MCCLUNG, A FORMER GOVERNOR PAWLENTY SPOKESPERSON AND A LONGTIME CAPITOL OBSERVER.

DEMOCRATS ON THE COUCH: JEFF HAYDEN IS A FORMER DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER IN THE STATE SENATE, NOW A LOBBYIST.

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, TARA ERICKSON IS A FORMER JOURNALIST AND LONGTIME LOBBYIST UP AT THE CAPITOL WHO NOW WORKS AS A CONSULTANT.

WELCOME, ONE AND ALL.

GUN DAY TODAY IN THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

AND THE BILL TO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE ON A 6-3 VOTE.

>> OH?

>> Eric: IS THAT -- THERE WERE FOUR OR FIVE OTHER BILLS IN ONE PERMUTATION OR ANOTHER ABOUT GUNS.

WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF THESE THINGS?

>> I THOUGHT THE SENATE ALWAYS HAD THE VOTES AND IT WAS GOOD TO SEE THAT THERE WAS SOME BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR THAT.

>> Eric: I'M NOT SURE THERE WAS.

IT WAS 6-3.

>> SOUNDED LIKE IT WAS.

>> Eric: SENATOR WESTROM WAS MISSING.

>> I THINK IT WAS GOOD TO GET THAT ON THE TABLE.

THE TESTIMONY WAS HEART BREAKING, AND SO I THINK IT SECONDS A REAL SIGN AND PUTS SOME REAL PRESSURE O GET SOMETHING DONE.

>> Eric: A POPULAR VOTE TO BAN ASSAULT WEAPONS?

>> WELL, FOR ONE THING, IT'S NOT HAPPENING.

IN ONE WAY OR OTHER, WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION.

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW IS MORE PUSH BACK COMING FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE PRIMARILY, BUT OTHERS SAYING, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, MORE THAN HALF THE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE OWN GUNS.

THEY'RE A VOICE NOT BEING HEARD HERE.

HOW IS THIS REGULATION GOING TO IMPACT NORMAL PEOPLE?

I MEAN, IF YOU START TALKING ABOUT THE BANNING MAGAZINES AND GUNS, JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY THAT HAS ONE IN THEIR HOUSE HAS, IT'S GOING TO HAVE AN IMPACT.

SO IT'S HEART BREAKING, YOU'RE RIGHT.

THERE WAS INCREDIBLE TRAGEDY THAT WAS INVOLVED IN THIS.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S MOVING THE NEEDLE ONE BIT.

>> WELL, I'LL JUST SAY THAT AS A PARENT OF TWO SCHOOL AGE KIDS, I REALLY WISH THAT WE WERE ABLE TO SET ASIDE POLITICS ENTIRELY AND JUST TALK ABOUT GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION FROM A COMMON SENSE PERSPECTIVE.

SO LET'S NOT WORRY ABOUT WHAT ANY ADVOCACY GROUP SAYS.

LET'S THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE SAFE STORAGE, RIGHT?

DON'T WE ALL WANT TO MAKE SURE THE KIDS DON'T ACCIDENTALLY GET ACCESS TO A GUN AND HARM THEMSELVES OR SOMEBODY ELSE?

LET'S THINK ABOUT, DO WE REALLY NEED THESE KINDS OF WEAPONS OF WAR.

TO KEEP OUR KIDS ESPECIALLY SAFE RIGHT NOW.

SO THAT'S MY HOPE FOR THIS SESSION.

I KNOW IT'S HARD.

AND I KNOW THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO BALANCE.

BUT WE SHOULD MAKE PROGRESS.

WE CAN MAKE PROGRESS.

LET'S JUST SET ASIDE THE OLD FIGHTS AND FIND A WAY.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOU THINKING, TARA?

>> I THINK THAT WE HAVE MORE GUN VIOLENCE THAN ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

AND THE FACT THAT E CAN'T ELECT PEOPLE WHO CAN COME TOGETHER TO TRY AND PUT A STOP TO THAT, I HAVE TWO BOYS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL.

AND, YOU KNOW, I -- ONE OF THEM WAS -- AS BEEN SO NERVOUS THAT HE ACTUALLY ASKED ME, THIS WAS A NUMBER OF MONTHS AGO, MOM, COULD I HAVE A BOTTLE OF FAKE BLOOD FOR MY BACKPACK?

AND IF THAT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU, AND MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR KIDS ARE GOING THROUGH, I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO FIND SOMETHING HERE.

>> Cathy: CAN I ASK YOU TO EXPAND ON THAT FOR JUST A LITTLE BIT?

HE WANTS A BOTTLE OF FAKE BLOOD?

>> BECAUSE HE SAID IF THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED, THAT HE WOULD HAVE A BOTTLE OF FAKE BLOOD THAT HE COULD PRETEND THAT HE HAD ALREADY BEEN SHOT AND HE COULD POTENTIALLY SURVIVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT'S WHAT A SIXTH GRADER IS SAYING.

>> Eric: LET'S MOVE ON TO THE FRAUD STUFF AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES.

EARLY DAYS, I GRANT YOU, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE BEST THEY MIGHT GET IS A STUDY AND THE MONEY FOR THE COMPUTER UPGRADERS?

>> SYSTEM MODERNIZATION IS NOT A SMALL THING SO TO START THAT PROCESS.

I SAID TO THE COMMISSIONER AS HE LEFT HERE.

THEY HAVE TO TALK TO LEGISLATORS.

WE ALL WORKED, YOU KNOW, EITHER BEEN A MEMBER OR BEEN ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF.

THEY HAVE TO TALK TO THEM.

THEY HAVE TO BRING THEM ALONG.

I THOUGHT IT WAS PARTICULARLY.

IT WEADGES JUST THE REPUBLICANS, SENATOR HOFFMAN WHO'S THE COMMITTEE CHAIR, SAID THAT THE GOVERNOR'S STAFF HADN'T TALKED TO THEM.

SENATOR CHAMPION, THE WEEK BEFORE, HAD A PROBLEM WITH ONE OF THE FRAUD PROPOSALS THAT THEY HAD IN HIS DIVISION.

SO THESE ARE DEMOCRATIC SENATORS WHO ARE SAYING THAT THEY HAVEN'T -- THEY DON'T HAVE THE RELATIONSHIP OR HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

>> Eric: AND THEN PAUL PORTIA WHO CO-CHAIRS WAYS AND MEANS, LEAVING THE LEGISLATURE, HE SAID IT WAS DEAD ON ARRIVAL, I THINK WAS HIS WORDS.

>> PRETTY MUCH.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S A MISTAKE IN A WAY, BUT THE GOVERNOR IS ON THE BACK OF HIS FEET BASICALLY FROM THE GET-GO FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS.

HE'S GOT NO CREDIBILITY IN THE ARGUMENT.

THE ONE PROPOSAL THAT WAS BIPARTISAN THAT PASSED IN THE SENATE THAT HAD TO DO WITH -- THAT FAILED AND THAT FAILED FAIS A RESULT OF RESISTANCE FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

>> I JUST WANT TO -- LIKE, SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE WITHIN HUMAN SERVICES.

WE HAVE ONE OF THE MOST ANTIQUATED SYSTEMS IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

WE'RE ONE OF EIGHT STATES THAT STILL HAVE A COUNTY-BASED SYSTEM AND THE FACT THAT THE REPUBLICANS BROKE AND ARE DESTROYING MEDICAID AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE BEING REASSESSED AND REEVALUATED TWICE A YEAR.

THIS IS ALL GOING TO THE COUNTIES WHO ALL DO IT DIFFERENTLY.

SO, YES, MAYBE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE SHOULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING VERY MUCH A LOT SOONER.

BUT I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD JUST THROW AWAY ALL OF THIS AND NOT THINK ABOUT HOW TO CENTRALIZE THIS.

THIS HAS TO BE CENTRALIZED.

>> YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT SHOULD BE CENTRALIZED OR NOT.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH CENTRALIZING IT WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SERVICES WHEN THEY'VE BEEN THE SUBJECT OF SO MUCH OF THIS FRAUD DISCUSSION.

AND SO THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE MORE MONEY AND MORE RESPONSIBILITY TO AN AGENCY THAT AS FAILED SEEMS KIND OF STRANGE.

BUT ALSO, I WANT TO TAKE A STEP BACK TOO AND GO BACK TO, YOU KNOW, THE FRAUD CZAR, TIM O'MALLEY WAS ANNOUNCED WITH GREAT FANFARE LAST YEAR.

HE WAS GOING TO BE THE FRAUD CZAR.

AND NOW WE COME TO FIND OUT, HE IS NOT A DPRAWD CZAR, HE IS THE PROGRAM DIRECTOR AND HIS JOB IS DONE.

AND SOMEHOW NOW TIM O'MALLEY WHO I THINK ALL OF US THOUGHT WHEN HE WAS HIRED BY THE WALZ ADMINISTRATION WAS GOING TO SEE THIS THROUGH TO THE END OF THE WALZ TIME IN OFFICE AND GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS, PUTS OUT A 70-PAGE REPORT THAT NO ONE'S GOING TO READ, BARELY ADOPT ANY OF THE REGISTRATIONS, WHAT AN ABSOLUTE MESS.

THAT'S NOT ON TIM O'MALLEY.

WE WORKED WITH HIM IN THE PAWLENTY ADMINISTRATION, THE FACT THAT WAS ALL THEY HAD TO DO WHEN THEY BROUGHT SOMEBODY IN, THEY EVEN GIVE UP ON THAT, AND THAT'S A SHAME.

>> HERE'S A LITTLE BIPARTISAN PIECE WE CAN PUT IN THIS.

THE COMPUTER SYSTEM WAS ANTIQUATED 30 YEARS AGO.

AND THEY'VE BEEN PROMISING TO DO SOMETHING WITH THE COMPUTER SYSTEM FOR THIS ENTIRE TIME, OFF AND ON DEPENDING ON WHO THE LATEST ADMINISTRATIVE OR COMMISSIONER OF ADMINISTRATION IS.

AND THEY'VE FAILED.

I MEAN, THIS MAY BE THE ONE LAST AND ONLY OPPORTUNITY THEY'VE GOT.

OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT AS WELL JUST START USING PAPER AGAIN.

>> Cathy: SO WHAT IS LIKELY TO PASS?

WHAT ACTUALLY HAS THE VOTES TO PASS?

>> LIKE, THIS SESSION IN TOTAL.

>> I THINK SOME VERSION OF THE O.I.G.

WILL PASS.

>> Cathy: THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL.

>> REPRESENTATIVE NOOR AND OTHERS HAVE BEEN PUSHING FOR THIS, ALONG WITH REPRESENTATIVE NASH.

I THINK SOME VERSION OF THOSE WILL PASS.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO HAVE THE TEETH THAT EVERYBODY WANTS, BUT I DO THINK THAT BOTH GROUPS, I THINK REPUBLICANS HAVE TO GO ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL SAYING THIS IS THEIR SOLUTION.

DEMOCRATS CANNOT LEAVE THERE WITHOUT SAYING THEY HAVE DONE SOMETHING ON FRAUD.

>> Eric: REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN VERY STERN ABOUT REJECTING ANY KIND OF BAILOUT PACKAGE FOR I.C.E.

RELATED LOSSES.

IS THAT GOING TO DIE IN THE HOUSE?

>> I CAN'T SEE IT GOING ANYWHERE.

I REALLY CAN'T, NO.

>> WELL, FRITZ IS ALWAYS IN THE MINORITY, EVEN WHEN HE'S IN THE SENATE, SO HE'S ALWAYS LIKE, NO, NO, NO.

>> DR.

NO.

[ Laughter ] >> I THINK IT WOULD BE A SHAME.

I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS, AS I SAID EARLIER, THIS WASN'T A NATURAL DISASTER.

THE FEDS MADE THIS DISASTER AND I THINK THAT'S WHY REPUBLICANS DON'T WANT TO OWN IT BECAUSE IF THEY DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, THEN THEY'RE KIND OF ADMITTING THAT THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

WE HAVE A RESTAURANT DOWNTOWN MINNEAPOLIS, DARIO, WHO MADE A CLARION CALL FOR PEOPLE TO COME DOWN BECAUSE NOBODY WAS COMING DOWNTOWN TO EAT.

THESE ARE LOCAL, SMART, GREAT RESTAURANTS AND IN THE TWIN CITIES THAT ARE SAYING, OR OTHER BUSINESSES THAT ARE SAYING THAT WE NEED HELP.

>> Cathy: TARA?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THAT WE HAD PEOPLE WHO WERE TERRIFIED IN THEIR HOMES FOR TWO MONTHS BECAUSE OF MASKED MEN ROAMING OUR STREETS AND TERRORIZING PEOPLE.

DO WE WANT TO HAVE TO SPEND MONEY ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

ABSOLUTELY NOT, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE ALTERNATIVE IS GOING TO BE.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO STAY IN THEIR OMES.

>> I DON'T THINK REPUBLICANS ARE BUYING THAT NARRATIVE AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

>> THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

>> IT IS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU'RE SEEING THAT REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, YEAH, THAT'S THE REASON PEOPLE AREN'T COMING TO DOWNTOWN MINNEAPOLIS ANYMORE.

THERE ARE -- IT'S A NICE EXPLANATION FROM YOUR SIDE AND HOPEFULLY SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN, YOU KNOW, BRING AND CAN PERSUADE THE ELECTORATE OF.

BUT REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING THAT'S NOT THE REASON.

>> BACK TO CATHY'S ORIGINAL QUESTION, ON WHAT MIGHT PASS, I'LL GIVE YOU A COUPLE MORE.

SO WE'VE GOT SENATOR HOFFMAN'S BILL ON THE HAPPY HOUR IN NURSING HOMES.

LIKE, THAT IS VIRAL.

[Overlapping conversations] >> Cathy: THERE'S ALWAYS ONE OF THOSE BILLS.

>> THAT'S A DREAM BILL.

THAT'S IN COMMERCE.

I'LL TELL YOU ANOTHER ONE IN COMMERCE IS THE MEAT RAFFLE BILL.

MINNESOTA OPERATES RIGHT NOW UNDER MEAT RAFFLE LAWS THAT WERE PASSED ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO.

SO IF YOU HAVE TO LIMIT IT TO 1 OR $2 PER TICKET.

YOU CAN ONLY HAVE 30 SPOTS ON THE WHEEL.

THE TOP PRIZE IS LIMITED TO $70.

WHO KNEW WE WERE REGULATED THIS, RIGHT?

SO THERE'S A BILL THAT REPRESENTATIVE NASH IS CARRYING IT IN THE HOUSE.

IT WOULD -- YOU COULD TAKE THE PRICE UP TO $5 PER TICKET AND A PRIZE OF $200.

SO YOU COULD GET A REALLY NICE COUPLE POT ROASTS THEN.

[ Laughter ] SO THAT'S THE KIND OF MINNESOTA LEGISLATION THAT OUGHT TO HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT.

SO EMAIL YOUR LEGISLATOR ABOUT THE MEAT RAFFLE BILL.

>> END TIMES, END TIMES.

>> Cathy: IT'S GRANDPA AND GRANDMA HAVING SOCIAL HOUR.

>> MAYBE MAKE THEIR WAY OUT TO THE MEAT RAFFLE, BRING IT ALL TOGETHER.

>> Eric: I WAS BROUGHT BACK TO THE DAYS OF JESSE VENTURA AND PAWLENTY WITH THE REPUBLICANS CALLING FOR A -- AND TAB FEES.

>> HEY, AXE THE CAR TAX.

REMEMBER, VENTURA, HE HAD HIS PORSCHE, THAT WAS POPULAR.

YOU KNOW, IDENTIFICATION WHAT YOU MIGHT SEE AS A POSSIBLE IDEA COME OUT OF THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE A GAS TAX HOLIDAY, WITH GAS PRICES GOING UP THE WAY THEY ARE RIGHT NOW.

I THINK YOU COULD SEE -- AND THIS IS A WAY TO PUT MORE MONEY DIRECTLY INTO THE POCKETS OF PEOPLE WHO WILL HOPEFULLY GO OUT AND SPEND IT AT SOME OF THOSE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED.

SO THAT MIGHT BE A WAY TO BRING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER.

IT'S A TAX CUT BUT IT ALSO HELPS ESPECIALLY LOWER AND MIDDLE INCOME FOLKS.

>> MAYBE DEMOCRATS WILL HAVE TO FIX THIS AGAIN SINCE THE REPUBLICANS ARE THE REASON THE GAS PRICES ARE GOING UP FROM A WAR THAT NOBODY WANTED.

>> Eric: THE REPUBLICANS MADE SOME HAY OUT OF A STATE LEGISLATOR WHO SAID SHE'D BE WILLING TO QUINTUPLE TAB FEES TO PAY FOR PROGRAMS.

>> SHE'S A FRESHMAN, RIGHT?

>> Eric: OKAY, AND THEN ANOTHER ONE SAID MAYBE WE SHOULD STUDY THE IMPACT OF SHOPLIFTING IN THE ECONOMY.

HE -- >> I THINK THE SERIOUS PROPOSAL IS ALSO TAN CONFORMITY, IT'S ABOUT $300 MILLION TO PUT YOURSELF IN ALIGNMENT WITH THE FEDS AND THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.

>> AND TAX ON TIPS IS PART OF THAT AND OVERTIME.

AND YOU'VE SEEN SOME EMOCRATS SAYING THEY DON'T WANT TO DO TAX CONFORMITY BUT A LOT THE FOLKS THAT BENEFIT ARE PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC BASE.

CAN WE AFFORD TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE GENERAL MOOD AT THE CAPITOL?

KIND OF FRUSTRATING?

>> YEAH, IT'S PRETTY TIGHT OVER THERE.

IT'S A OT OF, YOU KNOW, DISSENSION.

AND WE SAW THE GREAT TRIBUTE TO MELISSA HORTMAN, BUT THAT IS AROUND, THE IDEA OF GOING THROUGH THESE METAL DETECTORS AND A LOT OF STAFF, A LOT OF SECURITY, SO IT'S PRETTY TIGHT OVER THERE.

>> PEOPLE ARE PRETTY ENTRENCHED FROM WHAT I SAW.

>> Eric: BOTH SIDES CAN SAY TO THEMSELVES, WE'LL GO TO THE ELECTION, AND WE'LL WIN AND WE'LL DO IT BETTER IN 2027.

>> YEAH, THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, THE THEME OF THE SESSION IS, HOUSE COMMITTEE, SEVEN-SEVEN, THE BILL DOES NOT ADVANCE.

>> THE BILL DIES, SO FRIENDS OF MINE WHO ARE STILL LOBBYING ARE JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE ARE WORKING REALLY HARD TO TRY AND GET THEIR BILLS HEARINGS.

AND THEN OF COURSE IN THE HOUSE, EVERYTHING'S JUST KIND OF DYING ON A TIE VOTE.

>> THAT'S HOW IT FEELS FOR ME EVERY SINGLE AY.

>> Cathy: GOING BACK ON WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER ABOUT COMMUNICATION WITH THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, IS THAT GOING TO BE AN ISSUE GOING FORWARD?

>> I THINK IT IS.

AND YOU CAN FIX THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT THE GOVERNOR'S GOING TO HAVE TO GET TO CAUCUSES.

THE GOVERNOR'S GOT TO GET TO THE CAUCUSES.

HE'S GOT TO PICK UP THE HONE TO COMMITTEE CHAIRS.

WHEN YOU GET MEMBERS GOING PUBLIC, ON HIS SIDE OF THE AISLE, SAYING IN THEY HAVEN'T HEARD FROM HIM -- >> Cathy: ARE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT?

I EAN, WHAT'S HE DOING?

>> I MEAN, A LITTLE BIT.

I'VE ALWAYS HAD A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GOVERNOR, BUT MAYBE THAT'S I LIKE TO PICK UP THE PHONE ALL THE TIME AND CALL.

I DEFINITELY THINK THAT BEING A LAME DUCK GOVERNOR, YOU GOT A LOT F JUNIOR STAFF, A LOT OF THAT WORK GETS DONE AT THE STAFF LEVEL AND THEY'RE KIND OF FIGURING THAT OUT AND THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE KNOW ON THE STAFF ANYMORE.

>> THIS IS A GOVERNOR WHO GENERALLY HAS I THINK SET A TONE FOR WHAT HIS KEY PRIORITIES ARE.

HE IS TYPICALLY JUST KIND OF TAKEN WHAT THE LEGISLATURE SENT HIM.

SO THINKING BACK TO THE TRIFECTA, THAT WAS REALLY A LEGISLATIVE AGENDA THAT CAME TO HIM, NOT SOMETHING HE OUTLINED.

AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF COMMUNICATION IS YOU HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT -- >> Eric: AND LAKE DUCKEDNESS IS OBVIOUSLY AN ISSUE TOO.